Disclaimer: The following transcript is the output of an audio recording. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. Every possible effort has been made to transcribe accurately. However, neither Beautiful Business nor The Wow Company shall be liable for any inaccuracies, errors, or omissions.
Yiuwin Tsang
Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of the Beautiful Business Podcast brought to you by The Wow Company. My name is Yiuwin Tsang, part of the Beautiful Business team. And this week, we were joined by Chris Shaw. Now Chris is a creative at heart. He spent the last 20 years helping business leaders around the world maximise growth and achieve the results they really want, all against the backdrop of change. During his career, he has built an extensive playbook containing more than 200 unique tools, frameworks and insights all designed to simplify the complex nature of business and facilitate creative thinking. He has successfully built and exited both a management consultancy and a creative agency in the last 10 years, using his blend of commercial experience and academic insight to accelerate the growth of organisations and a wide range of sectors, including finance, media, education and professional services. He has published articles on Leadership, Culture, strategy and inclusion. Last in 2024, we'll see Chris venture into the realm of horror fiction, having recently signed a five book publishing deal in the young adult space. Let's jump straight in. Chris, can you give us a bit of background please to you your roles and the part that you play in the firms that you're involved with?
Chris Shaw
I've got a bit of an eclectic background. So I've got a background in the creative space, educationally. So art design, graphic design, and then found myself in professional basketball, oddly, or not so widely isn't very tall. But I found myself in professional basketball for a while, which took me out away from that creative space. And then after that career had finished, I then went into sort of business in the commercial end of business, troubleshooting, give them a sort of strategy, found my feet there, and then was headhunted into a consultancy. National consultancy. And so that was really my introduction to the consulting space, which is where I predominantly set and I guess, with the businesses that I work with, currently, as you know, one of founded and others, I've sort of contributed to their approach, I'd sort of operate in a more commercial space, effectively just helping them sharpen what they've already got, and understand how best to take that to market or look at new ways to take that to market. So I see it as a creative commercial, if there is such a thing, and just use my network wherever possible to open doors and help them get in front of broken people.
Yiuwin Tsang
Fabulous. So in terms of the consultancies that you're involved in, at the moment, what do you think some of the biggest challenges are that they face when it comes to growing when it comes to kind of scaling those kinds of businesses? Because I know that certainly from your experiences, kind of founding one from the start, and then obviously, getting involved with those who are a little bit further down their journeys. Chris, do you see any kind of commonalities in terms of some of the challenges that these consultancies face,
Chris Shaw
I think the challenges that they face is it's a saturated space, you've got a lot of consultants, whether they're large or small, one band consultants out there, peddling their services. So you've got a very saturated space in terms of everyone's got similar messaging, or they're trying to leverage the same statistic to resonate with potential clients. And it's very difficult to stand out. That's a real issue. And I think, you know, with that noise in, particularly in the leadership, development space, these are the things particularly in this sort of economic climate where those sorts of services are the first to be cut back with businesses tend to attract and try and weather storms and deal with things internally. And ironically, you know, that's when the consultancy services, if they're done right can offer the most value. So that's a real issue. And that's a real challenge. One of the businesses that I was involved in, it was a national consultancy. And it grew largely off the back of government initiatives that, you know, at the time, we had things like growth accelerator, I don't know whether you remember that which had sort of an access to finance and sort of consultancy, offering and coaching offering. And they grew off the back of that, and then develop relationships outside of those initiatives with larger enterprises. But generally, I think some of the issues that we're seeing is standing out. And also as you create that sense of urgency consultancy is very much a timing thing when you're trying to sell to a business and understanding actually, what are the pressure points that they're feeling? And that's very difficult to identify a lot of the time in a true sense. And so that everyone goes general, everyone goes with the, you know, the regular consultancy, spiel of, you know, will will help develop your leadership or help with your business strategy or help you break new markets. And so there is that battle to stay relevant. And when you look at things like aI now creeping in and technology, you know, that's shortcutting, some of that surface that consultants offer already and we're already rumblings of some of the larger consultants now looking at laying people off. So they're the challenges I'd say much like anybody business, you know, how do you get your message out there and get in front of the right people.
Yiuwin Tsang
And it's quite interesting from a game from a consultancy perspective in the sense that the whole purpose of a consultant is to bring that kind of expertise in to bring that kind of new thinking into an organisation. Just to pull on the threads of your answer that was one of the challenges, but understanding the timing of these things. And again, this isn't unique to the consultancy world, you know, agencies, most businesses, you can't help with things, sometimes it's just a bit of blind luck, they happen to be in the right place at the right time, with the right person and something lands and the pull that away. Obviously, it's more than luck. But what can you actually do about that? What can consultants do to make sure that they are, you know, front of mind or the do get the timing right, well, how can we find out about that timing? Yeah,
Chris Shaw
I think it's research and insight and building relationships. You know, it's all about relationship building. And there's always going to be a degree of luck with some of those. There's opportunities that land where it's just fortuitous. And your message resonates at the right time within that business, but it's staying relevant. And also, there's business as usual, gets in the way of everything. There is a timing issue, I mean, this sort of time of year, people are looking just to close out the year, they're looking to get to the end of the year, finish the quarter, hit their targets, and then they'll start planning for next year, possibly. And there is this sort of myth? Well, everyone's planning for the New Year, Christmas, you know, dives off a cliff, and there's, you know, you're not going to win any business at Christmas. But you've just got to keep at it and just keep building those relationships and understanding what's going on inside those businesses. What staggers me and I see this with clients all the time and have done throughout my sort of career in consulting is like simple value proposition models, where you're trying to get inside the client's head or the prospective clients head and understand what their day looks like, what their pressure points are, and what their pains are. Very few businesses actually take that seriously and invest the time and understanding that, instead, they kind of look for more silver bullet solutions, where you know, we've got a piece of technology that will get us in front of people. Yeah, we've got a hotshot salesperson, or a grey haired consultant who's got a black book that he can open up for us. And yeah, those things will work. But there's no substitute just for taking the time to understand your audience and understand what's going on in their world and then relate to that. And there's no substitute, not
Yiuwin Tsang
at all. And I think we were having a conversation just the other day about some consultants, and some businesses who find it difficult to kind of get themselves out of their own head, and into the shoes of claim, I blatantly stole the same from somebody, but you can't put on somebody else's shoes until you take off your own is a lovely way of putting it. And I think we can all feel guilty of that sometimes where maybe there's, if you're a product designer, or whatever, you have that kind of innovators bias, you know, and all these kinds of things that kind of restrict your thinking. But to your point, if you don't put yourself into the shoes of your client, if you don't try and understand their pain points are actually moving a little bit further along. If you don't understand what the value is that you provide for them, then you're on a hiding to nothing really aren't you?
Chris Shaw
Oh, absolutely. But very few businesses take that time. You know, and, and there's lots of tools out there that facilitate that process to get under the skin of you know, your target audience and your clients, even the clients that you're working with, that very few people sort of take the time to invest in that they tend to just get swept along in doing what they've always done. Because it yields results over time. But of course, times are changing now. And there are new things coming into the marketplace that are going to be disruptive, you know, technology is just one of them, you know, we're going through quite a sizable change and shift as a society. And so we need to learn to adapt. And some of that stuff is just, it's the basic stuff that isn't going to go away, you know, taking the time getting a feel for what's going on in their world. And understanding what the pain points are that sit behind the pain points, you know, the ones that they don't open up about the ones that aren't so obvious, because that's where you can make the most difference. Everyone buys emotionally, you know, and so you've got to tap into the more emotional side of that pain that they're feeling. And that might just be they're not spending enough time with their family, because they're, you know, they're stuck in the office or whatever. And how do you relieve that? Too often we see consultants trying to boil the ocean a bit with a proposition and actually, it's just a simple things that are wouldn't you the opportunity to or the ticket to play. And then once you're inside, that's when you can start adding the real value.
Yiuwin Tsang
Yeah, that's a nice ticket to play. And is that a strategy that you've adopted in the sense of, you know, getting that initial win that initial kind of bid, and then opening up that account or a client and expanding your services that is typically the kind of strategy that you would adopt or definitely
Chris Shaw
and when I look back at all the most sort of successful long term relationships with clients, they've always started off with something very specific. And you know, you've got to remember snowball start small. And once you're in there, they do start coming to you for other things once they see that you're capable of dealing with whatever they've asked you to deal with and brought you in for in the first place. So you know, this sort of boiling the ocean piece is a real trap for most businesses to be fair because you want to change To the world of the client, but actually, sometimes just the smallest of changes, the incremental changes can open up huge opportunities. On the flip side of that, though, you do I mean, again, this is sort of talking from experience in the consultancy space with the businesses I've worked with, you've got to be open to saying, Actually, I can't help you with that. Because that can be just as damaging, you know, if you take on too much, too soon, or take on things outside of your expertise. And that's tempting, particularly for smaller businesses, you know, very tempting. But you've got to be open and honest with the client and say, Actually, no, this is what I do. This is what I'm hanging my hat on doing outside of that I can connect you to people, but it's not what I do. I remember going into a business once you'd had a coach or a consultant in place for a number of years. And when I sort of unpicked what they were doing, they're pretty much doing administration for the business. It wasn't consulting and it wasn't coaching, you know, there's that battle of how do I keep the client alive, and bring an income in, I'll do anything. And so you really need to have a bit of faith in your own ability and your own service, and stick to your guns and say, well, actually, that's not what I do. If a client's lifespan ends, then you've got to kind of accept and look for a new client rather than try and perpetuate by doing things that are non core or, you know, not going to do your brand any favours either. Definitely,
Yiuwin Tsang
and reflects on the service and the surface level that you provide for clients as well, doesn't it? It's quite nice example, that there's a term that we came across quite recently called, again, where it came from, but it's this term of making a joyful purchase. There are so many things that we pay for in life is begrudging. Yeah, access utilities, and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, you know, what can we do? What can we provide our clients when they feel good about giving us money, or paying us or whatever it might be? And then as you say, that's always going to be a finite thing, it will be to be really good, then there's going to be narrower. And, and it's understanding, again, in so many walks of life, knowing when to say no, yeah, and being comfortable with saying no, and I guess it changes depending on circumstances, if you've got a small consultancy, there's just getting off the ground, or if you've got 2030 people, but you need that deal to come in. All these pressure points aren't there, there's all these kind of tests that you have to face in terms of the decisions that you make and the clients you take on. And the direction to which you look to scale. Oh, yeah,
Chris Shaw
massively. I think the other issue that you do face with these things as well is when you know, I've seen a lot of consultants, and this isn't me, bad mouthing consultants. I've seen a lot of consultants that will have a very specific skill set. And the challenge that they have is, you know, Genesis and I would say, when the only tool we've got is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. And so you have a bit of that occur in the consultancy space. And they kind of shoehorn, or you know, put square pegs in round holes. And again, that doesn't do them any favours, but not in the long run. So you've got to be able to just deliver, deliver your KPIs, or your your SL A's or whatever it is, you've agreed and have faith that that client will come back. Because you're you know, you're in a privileged position where you're under the skin of the business, when you're consoling. And you're seeing things that you know, outside of the team that your the leadership team that you're dealing with, might not necessarily see. Don't abuse that privilege. Yeah,
Yiuwin Tsang
yeah. And it's a certainly I want to go back to a point that you made before as well about the world kind of changing. And with the advent of AI, quite interesting point, you made about some consultancies actually looking to downsize. There's a big piece, and there's big discussion around like, what role does aI have to play and perhaps just digging a little bit deeper is the morality and the ethics behind it as well, because there's no doubt that, you know, one of our clients is a animator, graphic 3d 2d animator, and to render moodboards for client just to pick the direction of travel of the design can take weeks, you know, so it's expensive. But you can do it in minutes with AI with generative AI. So the question then is, where are the boundaries? You know, you're delivering value for the client, because it's speed, it's cheaper, you don't have to pay as much for the vendors to be done. But then it's like, you know, is it the original kind of work? So it is interesting, like the impact of AI, I'd be interested to know what your thoughts are on and when it comes to the consulting space?
Chris Shaw
Yes, is an interesting one. I mean, we've experimented with AI since its inception. And you know, we've had labs out that, that have been testing it and for months, and we've been experimenting with it in the consulting space. And also one of the other businesses that I'm involved in, uses it to underpin their training platform. And so there are lots of different use cases for it and lots of different ways of applying it that can shortcut manual work, as you've just said, we did an experiment recently and it pretty much org down about three months worth of consultant into 20 minutes work, which is fantastic. It still needs that human intervention. I think businesses will always, particularly at the moment, they want that human interaction, you know, AI isn't the solution on its own. It's part of a raft of new things that are emerging that we can integrate and used to better our services and our propositions. But I think the challenge, particularly for me, I was watching something on the news the other day, and there was a sort of blinking robot that was sort of mimicking human expression. But it was built in the shape of a human. And I'm sitting there thinking, right, okay, depending on the task, what was the point of that? Like? Why would you build something that looks exactly like everything else, when you've got the ability to build something completely different and new? And I think there is a degree of the creativity that's lacking in some of the application, there's AI, it's kind of like for like, well, we can use AI to do this person's job or do that aspect of this world. And people aren't thinking enough in terms of well, how can we change everything, and integrate AI in a way that's truly creative, not just sort of replacing life or life or not just being used as an efficiency tool? So you know, those sorts of questions are the ones that we tend to work with clients around and help them answer. And that's how do you integrate it? And how do you leverage it in a way that's unique, and it's gonna deliver real value rather than just, you know, well, we can save 20 hours there. Yeah,
Yiuwin Tsang
indeed, I guess it kind of emphasises, and really focuses the impact of the human touch of the human intervention of the human creativity of all the human elements that currently very difficult for AI to recreate. As he said, it's where the value really comes through. I was just gonna say it reminds me of when we bought our house, when we were looking for, like planning applications, or deeds, or whatever it was, it literally involved somebody going down to the planning officer, whatever was in going through folders pulling, photocopying, and bring it back up. Yeah. And you think, gosh, you know, and that was somebody in the solicitor and the legal firm to go and do that. And you think, am I paying 20 pound in six minute increments for you to go and do that? That is crazy. That's probably a really crude example. But it does show how AI the disruption that is bringing can be used in a positive way and should be used in a positive way. And as you say, kind of differentiate your value proposition back to what you can bring as a human.
Chris Shaw
Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting, and there are lots of industries that aren't keeping up in that space, you know, you've just started one as an example, I think you're seeing some bury their head in the sand and say, well, actually, it's not a today, issue, or it's a fad, you know, and things like, you know, particularly AI, I mean, it's my advice would be, it's here to stay. But then you've also got that knock on effect, I kind of trace this back to Amazon, you know, when Amazon introduced that delivery services, you know, next day delivery, prime delivery, and all that sort of stuff, it becomes then expected of everyone else. And so you can either be ahead of that change or driving it or you can be chasing it. And I think a lot of businesses that aren't looking at use of technology in a creative way will find themselves in a bit of a blockbuster situation eventually, and then they'll ever be chasing it or ever too late, you know, it's still early days with AI. And there are still significant things that are arrived with it. And I use it quite a lot in the sort of creative space and visuals, you know, creating images on big fan of machine learning, for example. And I use that a lot with my writing profile that I have. And you know, I run an experiment testing bias, because it's all problem based. And so I think at the time, I was looking at a boardroom table, and the boardroom table of business people, this was the language that I used was all middle class, white men sat around the table. And I had to really specify what I wanted, in order to get that reflection of society. And so there is a lot of bias embedded within AI. And it's only pulling from sources that we've created. So exactly.
Yiuwin Tsang
I think that's probably the most terrifying part really, isn't it? Because you know, if it's kind of like, based on human history, let's be fair, humans can be pretty
Chris Shaw
horrible. We're no great. Yeah.
Yiuwin Tsang
And that kind of segues quite nicely into the next question. I've got around, you mentioned earlier about changes in society. And I think there's big changes in terms of how is this like, almost all of us as a human race, really, our values, our concerns, our anxieties are changing, you know, post industrial revolution, when it was like, just go go go doesn't really matter. Now, we're much more aware. And maybe that's linked with connectivity as well, I don't know. But with the world, Oregon, where there are concerns, anxieties around climate change around social justice, we see more and more businesses kind of turning that into their kind of purpose, you know, building a purpose around that passion around that. And that in turn of that being affected by consumers buying decisions or client buying decisions, what have you seen in the consultancy world, where firms have been able to, I guess, kind of harness this energy in a positive way? And how do you think these kinds of sustainability elements and a fit into a consultancy is kind of growth?
Chris Shaw
I think you're right, I think there is a growing awareness and importance placed on those sorts more sustainable approaches to everything that we do. People are becoming more conscious of the planet and I think that is driving buying decision. It's also driving how businesses operate. As a result, it's definitely an area where people need to really kind of get back to that value proposition, they need to have a clear purpose in that space that they can hang their hat on and actually live and breathe, that is authentic and will resonate with new buyers. As you say, we're more connected now, information is more accessible, and it's accessible more quickly, the moment something breaks, it breaks everywhere, you know, if it's important enough, and we're seeing lots of initiatives to try and cut back on damage in our planet is interesting. I very rarely watch the news. But there was a, I think it was yesterday, we were talking about the climate conferences going on, and you've got King Charles is going there, and Sue next go in there as well. And they're both taking private jets and going separately, and we have a lot to learn. And you know, it was being sort of defended by whoever was the poor person who drew the short straw and then fed questions off from the press, saying, you know that they have scheduling issues, and they look at these things very seriously. But until we sort of start making moves in that space, it's only going to be incremental change. So you know, it's down to businesses and leaders to pick up that mantle and really drive change. And so that's part of what we do when we're consulting with businesses, we're taking into account four areas of focus in terms of where are the big changes occurring? What can those changes look like? What could they look like? And then we use those and run scenarios to stimulate more creative thinking within a business. So they can combat change, quickly. But one of those areas is planet, you know, the other is technology. And so we're looking, we mash all those things together and say, right, okay, imagine this scenario, what does that mean for your business. And so that's what we're trying to encourage. This is a weird atmosphere. But this is a weird atmosphere.
Yiuwin Tsang
And the work that you do there is around that kind of future proofing. When I looked into it, and when we spoke about it, it sounded a lot more than just being ready for disruption. But it's also in many ways, kind of embracing it, and kind of looking forward to it. And turn those four pillars, how does it work? And what you get your clients to do? Yeah,
Chris Shaw
I mean, analysis based around strategic forecast. And so our main focus is empowering businesses with adaptability as a discipline. So they can react to rapid change. And you know, there are more changes to come, as we all know. And they can react to that no matter what the change or where it's coming from. And they can recognise the opportunities, because every change presents opportunity as much as it does challenge. So we're not in the business of sitting on the phone, waiting for a call where a client calls us and says, right, this has just happened in our industry come in and helpers, we're equipping them to deal with any change no matter what. And so that's the only way you can really future proof of business because none of us have got crystal balls. And sometimes change is too fast to predict anyway, you know. So we look at four areas, we look at society, people in society, we look at technology, we look at the planet, and then we look at ways of working. And what we're doing is we're role scenarios in those four domains that will directly relate to that business and help them develop a methodology to navigate it effectively and quicker than their competitors as well. So that's what we're doing. But sometimes those scenarios can be not what the client expects. If we take AI for an example, you know, a lot of scare monger is a sort of paint in this Terminator, like picture, you know, where there will be slave to Skynet. And, and that's a potential, you know, some people are attacking that. But we would also say, Well, what happens if actually, the invasion of privacy, the fear of technology grows, you know, the uncertainty it creates in the workplace grows, when everyone suddenly just rejects technology and goes back to basics. What happens then? So what happens to the tech businesses then if everyone just suddenly unplugged? How do you adapt? How do you stay relevant. And so these are the sort of scenarios that we start looking at with businesses, and then we've got a framework that we'll work through with them that helps them navigate that with a view to then let them take that away and reapply it. Whatever happens, we don't want to create a dependency on us. Yeah, we just want to create an independancy of businesses to be adaptable. Because
Yiuwin Tsang
that's what's interesting. So the work that you do with them kind of focuses on there, the method and the principle of being adaptable as opposed to necessarily the outcomes because as you said, the outcomes could be anything more having the capability, the methodologies existing within those organisations to adapt and know what they need to do what they need to test one thing to think about, irrespective of the scenario that you're putting them under, but still within those four domains,
Chris Shaw
still within those four domains, and we create scenarios using integrating those four domains that will paint a picture specific picture in each of those four areas. And what we always say is, you know, as this whole sort of notion of evolution, it's not the smartest or the strongest survive, it's those that adapt the quickest. And that's what we're trying to encourage. So they can reapply that. And some of that might involve them breaking down business models, creating new ones. And I don't think enough businesses are thinking in that sort of space at the moment. They're not thinking about, you know, what happens if suddenly we have no currency? What happens if global warming has just gone too far, and we can't come back from it? What happens? Actually, if the government says, Actually, we're going to get behind global warming now and climate change? And we're going to make policies that every business has to stick to? What do you do them? So we're posing those sorts of questions and rolling out those sorts of scenarios for teams to work through and navigate successfully with the idea that got to get through it and get through it as quick as possible. And that's really all you can do to future proof of business.
Yiuwin Tsang
It's interesting, because I guess we talked about like, triggers right, early on, Chris, about what timing Why sorry for people to kind of take these sorts of things on. And it can't be the case that business leaders and consultancies, agencies any sort of business don't have these kind of thoughts in their mind, as you say, even if you don't watch much news, you still get exposed to it, you still see these existential, you know, threats that are coming in be its economies, war, climate change inequality. And there have been times, obviously, we're quite privileged in the West. But you know, you look at other places where it sparked like in Ukraine, like in, you know, Israel in the Gaza Strip, and things escalate incredibly quickly. And you know, you can reflect on those and think, Well, that was going to happen, and we could see that kind of happening. But yet people don't do that foresight, if you like that kind of pre thinking, I know, it's much more trivial when you compare those things to running our business. But the same thing happens. You mentioned blockbuster, you know, there are these signs of things of disruption that's coming down the line. Yeah. As business owners and leaders, we just don't spend enough time on it. And do you think that's because they've got enough on their plate? Is it just this short termism? I mean, what do you think it is, it's kind of restricting that
Chris Shaw
vision, I think it's a mix of all those things, I think there's an increasing pressure to deliver business as usual, as grown and expanded and become more demanding, and therefore, you know, requires a lot more time and effort and energy to meet whatever those expectations might be. And also, people just don't take enough time out of their business to look into the future. They might sit around and think, right, well, what's the company mission or vision? Or, you know, what's that three year plan? But they're not necessarily thinking in terms of what does the landscape look like in three years, you know, how could that change, they're pretty much working on the basis of or it's going to be as it is, that's where they kind of fall down a bit. So you've got to take the time. And as I said earlier, when things get tough, those sorts of exercises, requirements are the first to get cut. Because people kind of just batten down the hatches and say, right, we've got to get on and get things moving. So you know, it's a real difficult situation, and trying to convey that urgency, that sense of urgency for businesses to address some of this stuff, because the changes are coming. And they're only going to get faster as well, you know, the more adept we get creating amazing technology, the faster these changes are going to come in and knock you sideways. So sort of getting that urgency across. And having that resonate with a business can be very difficult. If they've got their head down. They're blinkered, you know, based on whatever's on in their inbox, or whatever's on their desk. As a consultant, you'd always encourage the importance of things like a way days and, you know, strategy days that were off site, so you're out of the noise, and you can work on the business and not in it all these cliches, that businesses still don't do it enough. And they don't do it in the ways that I would say, count, either. There's an element of sort of going through the motions with some of this stuff. Where are we this is what we do every year, we go to this lovely hotel, or we go to this lovely meeting space. And we do this and when you know, we have a nice lunch, and suddenly they lose the thread of the purpose of what they're there for. And that's the responsibility to their people to drive that business forward and make it successful. So that's the challenge.
Yiuwin Tsang
And what would you advise for business leaders, and also for other consultancy leaders, really, in terms of what they need to focus on in order to I guess, to not be disrupted? themselves. It's so interesting that you say that, because like, I remember going on a leadership development course years and years and years ago. And the exercise that we had to do was to pass this ball between us. And they just stood us in a circle randomly and said, You need to pass it to each other in order of your age. And he started doing it, you know, takes like four or five seconds or something like this. Yeah. And then the consultants said, Right, okay, so the last time we got in here, got it down to less than a second. And you're like, what, there's like six of us in this circle and you know what, and you give it a try and you end up throwing the ball also harder each other to try and do it quickly. Yeah. And then he's just stop for a minute, you know you're doing what businesses do. When things are tough, you throw the ball faster and harder. And all it happens is you're more likely to drop it. When really, we then fought right getting the order of our age, stone stand in a circle standing in line, and all of a sudden, it's just as ball just went down, dumped on our hands. And that was it. What would your advice be, then from a point of focus for consultancy leaders in general, or business leaders in general,
Chris Shaw
I think they need to focus on adaptability often were to sort of rigid and locked into ways of thinking even without realising, I noticed this recently, my son plays a lot of Rocket League, which I'm gonna whether you're familiar with that it's a game from the makers of fortnight, and you know, my son's 11. And he loves this game. And it's, I saw it as football with cars. So you're driving a car around and you're bashing a big football towards a goal? Yeah. And you've got like two or three cars against three. And so I was sitting down, he was playing in the background, and he started doing things that were counterintuitive. And then he won seven nil. And I'm sitting there scratching my head thinking, why is he going that direction? When the balls over there? Or, you know, why is he jumping over there. And you know, I couldn't understand it. And I thought about it a little while, and I realised it was because I was looking at it as football with cars, my son is looking at it as Rocket League. And we need to eliminate some of that bias within business where we're just so wed to what's always been the case that we can't see the wood for the trees. You know, a good friend of mine has the same or said you can't see the picture when you're in the frame. And businesses need to step out of that picture and more often, and look at the landscape. And look at how they're doing things and say actually, how can we do this in a way that's more effective, particularly as we're getting increasing demand to do things in a more sustainable way? You know, you're getting challenges with automation and efficiencies. And how do we actually look at doing things in a different way. And businesses don't spend time doing that. They spend a lot of time protecting what they've got and doing what they've always done. And so there needs to be a focus on creativity and adaptability, because those are the two human qualities that so far, AI is not close to touching. So that's what they need to focus on.
Yiuwin Tsang
Thank you for listening to this week's podcast and a big thank you to Chris Shaw for joining us and sharing his insights.